Curse

Kratos Angel · Jan 16, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Humm I must admit I'm not sure if I agree or not. Of course, I think it's not really fair than other countries than Europe ones can't get acess to those 2 excellent areas.
But if you study that case, allowing all to be able to go to fow and uw, I'm not sure on this point but Shards and Ectos' prices would drop incredibly fast, as all players over the world would be able to farm it and then armure fow would have no more value.
Another thing, the two faction elite areas, urgoz and deep are more than restricted, just an alliance can get into it, which is really less than a whole continent (excepting the fact that they can do taxis).

So I would say yeah this system doesn't work anymore, all should have acess. However another thing on favor of gods could be hummm maybe you can get into it free and have a bit more chance to drop/ get better drops.

So just for the idea of putting it accessible to all, /signed (I'm European just look at my country ^^) but I don't totally agree personnaly with your ideas, I'm not really sure on what should happen then.

lakimailer · Jan 16, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Now this is a very good idea!!! Iplay PvE and PvP with my PvE char but somehow cant make my guildmembers to play PvP - they are just not interested... I think that this could actually work - and the game would become much more interesting.
Anyway favor is definitely a problem. i feel sorry for those guys who cant get it for days (I'm from Europe so I have no problem) - but the coin could flip and America could have the favor longer than Eurpe again... This is something that must be solved because it has negatve effect on the game I think.
And this idea with Balthazar (it could be more like 3000 - one elite) looks very good to me.

Just my humble opinion.

Laki

KESKI · Jan 16, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orinn

Honestly, it ALSO encourages flamewars, people bashing Americans when they have favor, people bashing Europe because Europe has favor... It's encouraging bad blood within the community itself, creating divisions and a lot of animosity. For that reason ALONE, favor is a bad idea. Who wants to coem to the fansites, and read daily that America sucks because they can't earn favor, Europe sucks because they're all elitist whatever, Korea sucks because they don't have the great HoH teams.. The flaming, the negativity, the anger, and the general bad feelings that build up do not help Guildwars, ANet, or the community in general. The discontent that it creates does far more hamr than good. It's not a friendly competition to improve, the results and rewards are tangible, and a cutthroat mentality has seized far too many posters here.

Want to stand up and say "BAN ALL SPORT EVENT!!"??

People bad mouth other, because bad mouthing is the only thing they can do as a powerless person who can only stand on the sideline

see I can make pveer look bad just as easy as you can make pvp look like some savage racism worshiping palace

but do we need to go on like this??
As much as there are "Leet" in pvp, a lot of pvper respect a good fight, and a good players....pheonix!!! woooo~~~~

They just forget the part "we all have to start from 0"

However, there are also bad blood in the new blood...I got in a few group that demand rank 3+. After everyone show their rank and ask the leader his...guess what

Now, if a new comer can not be humble, does he deserve others respect??
Good thing this isnt usualy the case

KESKI · Jan 16, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

If they really need a link of PvE to PvP, favor is not the way. Imagine a fairly new player coming from the PvE world going to HA to try out PvP. Their first problem would be getting into a group. Since they don't have rank X, almost no one will take them. The groups that do end up taking them would probably be crushed quickly. I would even say that the favor system probably turns more people away from PvP than it brings.

Again, players did this, not the system

and again "Players fail the system as much as the system fail us"
and yes, since system is not a living thing, we can bash it all we want

but if the people cant sit down and ask themselve "what did I do wrong??"

No system will ever work for everyone.
and a system only work for a group of people will always be challenged, that is why you are here right??

Orinn · Jan 17, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by KESKI

Want to stand up and say "BAN ALL SPORT EVENT!!"??

People bad mouth other, because bad mouthing is the only thing they can do as a powerless person who can only stand on the sideline

see I can make pveer look bad just as easy as you can make pvp look like some savage racism worshiping palace

but do we need to go on like this??

Well, I was commenting on the flamewars and bitterness on the FORUMS, rather than in-game. I understand that emotions tend to run high in a match, and soem trash-talking has become accepted. however, at no time did I try to make PvP "look like some savage rasicm worshipping palace." In fact, I didn't comment on anything other than the favor system. I admit that I don't PvP, dont' find it fun, but I'm not the entire playerbase. Some people love it, so more power to them. But here's the interesting part: how THEY play affects MY game experience, while they are completely indifferent as to what I manage to accomplish in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KESKI

As much as there are "Leet" in pvp, a lot of pvper respect a good fight, and a good players....pheonix!!! woooo~~~~

They just forget the part "we all have to start from 0"

However, there are also bad blood in the new blood...I got in a few group that demand rank 3+. After everyone show their rank and ask the leader his...guess what

Now, if a new comer can not be humble, does he deserve others respect??
Good thing this isnt usualy the case

OK... This has what to do with favor, and the link between PvP and PvE? Maybe I'm missing something in your post, but it seems you're defending that fact that ranked PvP players tend to cut out unranked new PvP players. Fine, but the topic of this post was favor, not elitism, racism, PvP vs PvE, or whatever. I didn't really see anything in your post describing why you liked, disliked, or even considered favor.

I dont' care about PvP. I would like it to have as little impact on my gameplay as my PvE has on the PvP matches. I won't discuss the things that happen in PvP, I'm sticking to the topic at hand: favor, and the negativity it's been creating in the game and on the boards. Thanks for flaming me with such a passionate response, though. The (misplaced) anger just serves to prove my point.

Hirum · Jan 17, 2007, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Its a big desolate land with lots of Shadow soldiers and uninscribable loot and armor. If you want to explore, better rally a group of 6 people and start killing some Europeans!

This game forces you to participate in both of its aspects to be fully beneficial. Stop looking for ways to sneak out of what was originally one of GW's best ideas.

aB- · Jan 17, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by KESKI

Again, players did this, not the system

and again "Players fail the system as much as the system fail us"
and yes, since system is not a living thing, we can bash it all we want

but if the people cant sit down and ask themselve "what did I do wrong??"

No system will ever work for everyone.
and a system only work for a group of people will always be challenged, that is why you are here right??

So you've admitted there's a problem. It doesn't matter where the fault lies; I personally believe it's a combination of both. However, the fact still remains that there is a problem and it needs a fix, whatever it may be.

Orinn · Jan 17, 2007, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirum

Its a big desolate land with lots of Shadow soldiers and uninscribable loot and armor. If you want to explore, better rally a group of 6 people and start killing some Europeans!

This game forces you to participate in both of its aspects to be fully beneficial. Stop looking for ways to sneak out of what was originally one of GW's best ideas.

Not really: You can play PvP only, never touch PvE, and with unlock packs, still be a competitive PvP player, with access limited only by your skill. That's YOUR skill, and that of your teammates. Not some random player on a map halfway across the game-world who isn't interacting with you at all.

Again, the ORIGINAL system you love so much did NOT include PvP-only characters. Should we dump them to get back to "one of GW's best ideas." that was "players will play through the PvE campaigns, then move onto PvP with those same characters?"

I'm not seriously suggesting that we remove PvP-only characters. What i'm trying to point out is that the system changed, and that favor is a remnant, and an ugly one at that. They scrapped PART of the system that tied PvE and PvP together: the idea that a PvE character, one that played through the storyline, would be almost necessary in PvP because of the skill unlocks, the high-end armor, and the experience with the game. PvE is NOT PvP, ANet recognized that and split PvP off a bit so that all the PvE elements weren't a requirement for participating in PvP. Now they need to finish the job, remove favor, and eliminate the thing that yokes PvE gameplay to PvP gameplay, as they removed the system that yoked PvP gameplay to PvE play.

Does this idea really fail to penetrate here? If it's not fair to force someone to PvE to have a complete Pvp experience, then the reverse is also true: it's not fair to force people to PvP just to explore all of the PvE content.

This is why we can say that favor is a bad mechanic and a bad system.

TheRaven · Jan 17, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Well I feel that favor should be changed somehow because of one simple reason....Threads like these. The OP asked for an intelligent discussion on the subject, but it looks like most of the responses have just been flames. Is favor really hated that much that people are incapable of having a rational discussion on it without descending to "I hate PvP snobs" and "I hate PvE losers"?

In the spirit of trying to achieve "an intelligent discussion", here are some random thoughts from my head.

It's obvious from reading various threads on this site that the majority of the player base hates the favor system as it is now. The 2 reasons given the most are:
1. PvE and PvP should not be tied together.
2. One region constantly hogs favor and it's not fair.

I don't have a perfect solution. I would love to see Gaile Gray respond to one of these "favor sucks" threads and let us know what A-net thinks about the subject and whether or not they have any plans to change it.

Personally, I like the concept of favor. I like having Fow/Uw locked at times. It gives the players something to work for, but I would prefer a system where I could somehow contribute to our region's favor and work towards gaining my access to these areas. Also the favor system should be re-arranged so that players in tiny regions have equal opportunity to win favor.

For starters how about combining Korean, Japan and Taiwan into 1 "Asia" region? That will give them more power.

Next place a PvE goal in the game that influences favor. Something perhaps like whichever team has the high score in Dragon's Throat wins the favor of the gods. Or whichever region has the most scores in the daily top 10 of all the challenge missions wins favor. If this becomes a viable idea then A-net should add more Challenge Missions to Prophecies and Nightfall. (Note: I haven't played much NF. Do challenge missions exist there?)

Dark Kal · Jan 17, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Well, I was more venting earlier on than anything else. Whenever I see an American complain about the favor system there's a little devil inside me going: "Muhaha, payback time for all those months America had favor all the time

!". I don't know why that happens

In truth I do believe that the favor system is flawed, however I don't think the OP's ideas are the way to do it. When Europe hardly ever had favor I always wondered if Americans didn't get bored of having it all the time, now that we have it all the time I can assure you the answer is yes (if you aren't intrested in farming UW and FoW all the time). I almost liked it better when we never had favor because it made it more special when we did have it, and it was fun exploring UW or FoW when we got the chance. But if you have favor all the time it gets boring and people just farm those places to death and it really isn't that intresting anymore. The only real reason to request the favor change is because you want to farm those places.

I think Taiwan, Korea and Japan have their own favor system now, seeing as I can only choose between American and European servers now, while before I could also switch to Korean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

I don't have a perfect solution. I would love to see Gaile Gray respond to one of these "favor sucks" threads and let us know what A-net thinks about the subject and whether or not they have any plans to change it.

Gaile has responded to the issue (I'm not quite sure when or where, I think it's in one of her ingame logs) where she says the same as the Europeans have been saying. America had the favor at the beginning of the game and Europeans where complaining about the favor change all of the time but the only response was to get better at HoH and now they say the same to the Americans. That's about the gist of it atleast, I'm not making this up it really is in one or several of the Dev logs. So there probably won't be a change.

Sqube · Jan 17, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Dark Kal, I almost agreed with you until you said the only reason that anyone wants access to UW/FoW is so they can farm ecto and shards. You simply could not be more wrong.

While it's true that there are people who simply want to farm, guess what? The hardcore farmers most likely don't have a problem with simply switching to whatever region has favor so they can keep on doing their thing.

The favor system is bothering people like me, who have never even been inside the Underworld or the Fissure of Woe. The closest I've ever been is the Tomb of Primeval Kings.

That said, deep down inside, we all know the favor system is never going to change. It seems to me that ANet feels any favor problems are completely in the minds/attitudes of the gamers; the favor system itself is perfect.

And I agree -- when it was necessary to create a PvE character in order to PvP, there was probably a lot more desire to gain (and hold) favor because you had been through the PvE experience. Nowadays, PvP people don't care about PvE. As long as the system dictated that everyone involved in Heroes' Ascent had an interest because they could reap the benefits, then it made sense. Now, PvP players don't have any interest in what goes on in the PvE world; as a matter of fact, they shouldn't. ANet made it clear that they shouldn't have to when they made it possible to create PvP-only characters.

It comes down to the fact that I don't want to be forced to PvP in order to be able to wring every last drop from my PvE experience. Unfortunately for me and the (apparent) legions of people who feel the same way, this was one of the primary selling points of Prophecies. PvP is integral to the PvE experience, while the opposite is not the case. ANet designed the game this way from the very beginning, they want it this way, they like it this way, and they're never going to change.

As far as anyone is concerned, that's the last word on the subject: you don't like it? Too bad.

Dougal Kronik · Jan 17, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Favor is broken, always has been and always will be in it's current format.

The best fix for it, remove it entirely.

There is no reason, I and so many others, should be "encouraged" to play in a way we don't enjoy. I would like to get a guuild group and clear the UW and FoW and complete all the quests associated there. But having to wait for Favor, and then most of the guild have logged off, because of work or school the following day, there is not enough time to explore and play.

Fun for us, isn't it?

TheLordOfBlah · Jan 17, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg

/notsigned

I now think that Europe should have favour 24/7. Europe never used to get favour, now you're getting a taste of your own medicine

Sorry but that is the stupidest logic ive ever heard. So basically what you're saying is... the favor system should stay and europe should always have favor because america was winning all the time a few months ago. Doesnt that SUPPORT the idea that something is wrong with favor? 'Cause it sounds like you're bitching about it too...

JMFD · Jan 17, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I'm a european and hate favour req for UW/FoW for one simple reason - International Access.

I have friends on the American server I can play with through any other content, but not UW/FoW without extreme measures (fighting to grenths statue in Lornar's pass - which takes ages from Rankor or War camp)

I've won a place at the NCSoft European winter party (yay!) And will be sure to mention it then

Grais · Jan 17, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

This game forces you to participate in both of its aspects to be fully beneficial. Stop looking for ways to sneak out of what was originally one of GW's best ideas.

One of the best ideas ?
Anet doesnt even believe that, or they wouldnt sell PvP only paks?
So, judging from your logic, Anet has allready snuk out of their 'great idea', but its not fair for PvE'rs to want to do the same,by abolishing a stupid idea, that should go the way of the dodo.
I mean really what does it encourage buta LOT of acct. hoppping and endless arguments on fansites, and for what ?
To encourage PvE'rs to PVP. Fine remove the PvP packs if that is the case, it should be a completley level playing field and it isnt.
They make it much easier for PvP'rs to attain anything in the game, weapons, mods, skills, I mean elites come on, that is what the PvE'rs have to fight for.
And I am fine with that, the PvP paks, and the elite system as is, but remove the stupid favor system, the company themsleves have all ready lost faith in it, they have never tried to tie anything else to it, just two areas I have been in 100's of times, so its not like I want favor removed so I can get in, we have it all the time when I play, I can go anytime.
It's simply a poor idea that has had its day in the sun, and now is sinking into despair. they tried, time to admit defeat.

Anet has made many moves away from tying the two games together yet they continue to shove favor in the face of PvE'rs, give it up, they do not want to PvP and trying to lure them to it with a bad idea like favor, has been proven not too work. People that want to play the PvP game will, people that dont wont. Simple. Why try and complicate it.

Div · Jan 17, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I've seen something similar to this in other forums/threads, and I'll give the same answer. Having "favor" of the gods is a privilege, not a right. Not everyone has the privilege to access it. Funny it's how the Americans that complain about having only late night favor and not the Japanese or the Taiwanese who have favor once a month. Though some solutions are better than others, I think the original intent of the makers is to make uw/fow a privileged place and not just make it any old PvE area that any ascended person can access.

And I could very well make a thread saying the solution to the problem is to make uw/fow access free for all, and I'm sure 90% of the forum posters would /sign my proposal. That doesn't say very much.

Dougal Kronik · Jan 17, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Having "favor" of the gods is a privilege, not a right. Not everyone has the privilege to access it.

True, it is a privilege. But don't make the privilege of player x dependent upon player y who couldn't care less if they win the privilege for player x.

I put forth about 18 months ago that access from ToA should be when ever Favor is held by that region, but access from Lornar's Pass and The Falls (have to find some way to make the entrance there into 8 members) open all the time. Whether your region has Favor or not.

Therefore, if you want in bad enough, you go to the alternate entrances, pay you 1k and you're in the UW or FoW. If you fail, you end up back in the Temple that you entered from. Pay to get rid of your DP, and then re-enter if you wish.

Sqube · Jan 17, 2007, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I imagine most players in general (not just forumgoers) who are aware of FoW/UW would be in favor of a system that let them access the high-end content as long as they were able to pay the 1K fee.

That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right or wrong decision; I would, however, be willing to bet that most people would be in favor of going to UW/FoW whenever they feel like it.

To be honest, I'd like to hear the justification for why PvE is still linked to PvP while PvP isn't linked to PvE. Not because I want to start trouble or anything like that; but it's been my experience that there's no shortage of this type of thread. In the face of this, I'm curious as to why ANet is ignoring us.

An explanation is all I want, really. I mean, I'm not likely to agree with what they say, but I'd like to know what the justification was/is for keeping us leashed to PvP like this.

cloudbunny · Jan 17, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I am an european member in an international guild. Our main problem is that we can not make guild parties with both american and european players.

We once tried the temple north of Dreadnaughts Drift, but America lost favor before we got in so no luck there either (it is only open for mixed parties when US have favour).

We are a relaxed guild that really like those long FoW/UW clearout trips. 5-7 hours of fun. Real pity mostly we europeans get to do them, and never in joint international cooperation.

Regards,
Cloudbunny

Pwny Ride · Jan 18, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

/NOT SIGNED

This is going to sound harsh but the way i look at it...Europe has favour more often, its a fact of life. Life isnt easy, so sit down and suck it up, and feel free to rant until you little head is all red and swollen.

Remeber this, you want something you gota work for it. Remember, like others have said time and time again, favour is a PRIVELAGE not a RIGHT, you want favour? Go ahead and work hard like us European players do.

Sorry if that post was discriminating but francly its the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts buddy.